Lesson: Omitting "that" from a sentence

Comment on Omitting "that" from a sentence

How did u say 'that' is the subject is a object in the first sentence
gmat-admin's picture

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Can you rephrase the question?

Hey Brent, when do we need that in a sentence
For example: Do we need 'that' in "He told me that Albert won"?
Or do we need that in "The study suggests that they must remain"

Very confused
gmat-admin's picture

Both sentences are correct without THAT, because THAT is not the subject in the clause:
- He told me Albert won.
- The study suggests they must remain

However, it's important to know that it's grammatically correct to leave the "THAT" in each sentence:
- He told me THAT Albert won.
- The study suggests THAT they must remain.

Cheers,
Brent

Hi Brent,

Could you please tell me why D is incorrect, and why C is correct.

The 151 member governments of the World Bank are expected to increase the bank’s funding by $175 billion, though some United States legislators cite an obstacle to Congressional passage being the concern that the bank’s loans will help foreign producers compete with American businesses.


(A) an obstacle to Congressional passage being the concern

(B) a concern as an obstacle to Congressional passage

(C) as an obstacle to Congressional passage the concern

(D) the concern, an obstacle to Congressional passage,

(E) as an obstacle for Congress to pass it the concern

Thank you in advance,
gmat-admin's picture

Question link: https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-151-member-governments-of-the-world-bank-...

D) The 151 member governments of the World Bank are expected to increase the bank’s funding by $175 billion, though some United States legislators cite the concern, an obstacle to Congressional passage, the bank’s loans will help foreign producers compete with American businesses.

In the sentence, "an obstacle to Congressional passage" is an appositive phrase telling us that CONCERN = OBSTACLE to Congressional passage. This doesn't make any sense.

On its own, CONCERN is not an obstacle. The true obstacle is the concern THAT the bank’s loans will help foreign producers compete with American businesses.

For this reason, D is out.

Many students will find answer choice C awkward. Most would rather use the construct CITE X AS Y and write "“States legislators CITE the concern that the bank’s loans will help foreign producers compete with American businesses AS an obstacle to Congressional passage."

However we can also use the construct CITE AS Y X
This is how we get answer choice C: "legislators CITE AS an obstacle the concern that..."

Cheers,
Brent

Hi Brent,

Could you please explain this modifier in the A:

More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.


(A) More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(B) With 20 percent of the world's fresh water, that is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal has more than 300 rivers that drain into it.

(C) Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, it holds more of the world's fresh water than all that of the North American Great Lakes combined, 20 percent.

(D) While more than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(E) More than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water.


I was so confused about the modifier "more than all the North American Great Lakes combined." that I eliminated this answer choice right away. Could you please provide a few examples in which similar modifier is used?

Thank you in advance,
gmat-admin's picture

Question link: https://gmatclub.com/forum/more-than-300-rivers-drain-into-siberia-s-lak...

In this sentence, "more than all the North American Great Lakes combined" modifies "20 percent of the world's fresh water"
That is, it's an appositive phrase that tells us "20 percent of the world's fresh water" is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

Here's a similar sentence: Joe flew to Paris, which is the home of Jane Doe, the former queen of Maltania.

Cheers,
Brent

Hi Brent,

I understand your point.

In your sentence, the case is simpler since we have a "small" noun to which"the former queen of Maltania" connects as an appositive phrase

But in that GMAT sentence the noun is much "bigger" or "longer":

More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

"more than all the North American Great Lakes combined" is an appositive phrase to the whole noun "20 percent of the world's fresh water"

In the next sentence I will try to shorten the noun to make it easier:

More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 100000000 liters of water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

Now the noun that is modified is "100000000 liters of water".

Lastly, I was trying to invent a similar sentence with a similar "long" noun.

Scientists were trying to amass the data about the temperature of all stars in the observable universe, data never before gathered by humanity.

Is now "data never before gathered by humanity" is appositive phrase "data about the temperature of all stars in the observable universe".

Sorry for such a long comment, but I really want to understand the concept.

Thank you in advance,
gmat-admin's picture

Those are all perfect examples. Well done!

Hi Brent,

Thank you very much for your time,

Hi Brent,

I was reviewing this question again, and I would like to know one thing about the difference between A and D,

A) More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

D) While more than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

There are some discussions on the Gmatclub that D is incorrect because of two issues:

1_"modifier 'which' incorrectly modifies '20 percent of the world's fresh water'"
2_"While" shows unnecessary contrast.


While I completely agree about point 2, I disagree about point 1, because if this sentence is considered correct:

More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

this also must be correct

More than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.( I eliminate "WHILE")


In other words, is there a difference, in terms of correctness, between this:

*"...20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined."
or this
*"...20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined."


What do you think?

Thank you in advance,

gmat-admin's picture

There are a lot of different ideas regarding this question (on both GMAT Club and Beat The GMAT).
For me, WHILE is the biggest reason to eliminate D.

"More than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal...." doesn't work because our opening clause is no longer dependent. As such, we can't just separate the two independent clauses with a comma.

I'd say your last two sentences are fine.

Cheers,
Brent

Hi Brent,

It has been a rather long but very productive discussion. Thank you very much for that, you taught me a lot.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-gyrfalcon-an-arctic-bird-of-prey-has-survived-a-close-brush-with-134552.html
Hi Brent, in this question why is A better than E? Usually when we are a comparing strictly as per GMAT grammar rules, we say "Mary's hair is better than that of Jan." or "My income is more than it was last year". In essence, usually in the second part of the comparison, we add a pronoun for the sake of clarity. So here, why have we chosen A over E? Am I missing out some logic here?
gmat-admin's picture

Question link: https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-gyrfalcon-an-arctic-bird-of-prey-has-surv...
Tricky question! (39% success rate on GMAT Club)

We're comparing the following.
A) ...its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was...
E) ...its numbers are now five times greater than what they were when the use of DDT was...

GMATNinja provides an eloquent explanation here: https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-gyrfalcon-an-arctic-bird-of-prey-has-surv...

That said, I'll try my best to explain why A is better.

First off, recognize that we're comparing populations from two different TIME PERIODS: NOW and the 1970's (when DDT use was restricted)
Although it's true that all ambiguity would be removed if we added something like THEY WERE to answer choice A to get "its numbers are now five times greater than THEY WERE when the use of DDT was...", the test-makers disagree. They feel that there's no ambiguity since the mention of two different time periods creates enough parallelism to assume we're comparing populations from two time periods.

Answer choice E has a problem with WHAT.
Without WHAT, we get "...its numbers are now five times greater than (WHAT) they were when the use of DDT was...," which would be perfectly fine.
So, the word WHAT is unnecessary/redundant.

For these reasons, the correct answer is A.

Hi Brent,

I have pasted all my notes w.r.t the usage of "that" Please could you check if my understanding of "that" is correct.

(1)Singular / Plural + person / non person reference form of “That”

1) As a relative pronoun – Can refer to singular or plural nouns. BUT can only refer to non-person object
E.g. The car that is parked is mine - CORRECT
E.g. The cars that are parked are red in color - CORRECT
E.g. The girl that is tall is my wife - INCORRECT

2) As a demonstrative pronoun / A non-relative pronoun – Can ONLY refer to a singular noun BUT can refer to person or non-person objects
E.g. That car is expensive - CORRECT
E.g. That is my wife - CORRECT
E.g. That cars are expensive - INCORRECT

(2) When “that” MUST and MAY NOT be repeated: -

1) If “That” before clauses has been used as relative pronoun modifier, then second “that” may not be repeated
a) Gita went to the café that is owned by her brother and that serves the best coffee in the town. – Correct
b) Gita went to the café that is owned by her brother and serves the best coffee in the town. – Correct

2) If “That” has been used as a connector in the parallel structure, then, both the parallel clauses must begin with “That”
a) The doctor said that my ailment was serious and that I needed to start the treatment immediately – Correct
b) The doctor said that my ailment was serious and I needed to start the treatment immediately – Incorrect


Note – When “that” is used as a connector it can be avoided
•The more prevalent belief is that it is celebrated to honor Valentine's burial - CORRECT
•The more prevalent belief is it is celebrated to honor Valentine's burial - INCORRECT
o That is used as a connector and hence can be kept understood


Note – When “that” is the subject of the dependent clause then it cannot be omitted
• E.g. I like the pizza that contains only vegetables. – That refers to the preceding noun the pizza and acts as the subject of the dependent clause that it starts. Hence, it must be explicitly mentioned in the sentence.
• E.g. I like the pizza that my mother makes at home. – That refers to the preceding noun the pizza but does not act as the subject of the dependent clause that it starts. The subject of the dependent clause started by that is my mother. Hence, it is not necessary to mention “that” in the sentence.
o Alternative – I like the pizza my mother makes at home.



gmat-admin's picture

Nice summary! I agree with all of it.

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